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Coaching and Corner Taking

Ricky Holmes aside, do we have anyone else who can cross a ball and take a decent corner?
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  • edited January 4
    Well Holmes seems to take pretty much most corners when he’s on the pitch, I’m not saying his corners are Worldies, but what on earth do they do in training?

    I know it was a few games ago, but Marshall’s corner taking was shocking.
  • JFC takes the corners normally, not Holmes.
  • Solly is one of the few I have any faith in when it comes to crossing... that is one aspect certainly not helping Magennis
  • Don't seem to be able to get the ball past the first defender; our corners and free kicks are usually abysmal. And yes, this does not help Josh.
  • It's weird because JFC and Holmes havw both been excellent on dead ball set plays in the past. Last season when Aribo came in his corners and free kicks were a revelation but even his don't seem uo to scratch of late. Our crossing from open play is marginally better (possibly helped by the fullbacks).

    It's just one of the many things that we just can't seem to get right at the moment which is contributing to our downturn.

    I'm sure confidence is a huge part of it.
  • They need to swap sides as well, instead of in swingers most of the time they need to vary it and have more out swingers.

    It frustrates me the times holmes can't clear the 1st man, a fine system would help that.
  • Coaching for scoring goals would help too :smiley:
  • In Garry Nelson's 2nd book, when he was a coach at Torquay, he credited a fan with a goal scored from a "conventional" corner (when they'd been persevering with short corners) - spoiler: it might have been vice versa. The point being that they had spent the whole season trying to perfect a set piece and the fan suggesting that it was too obvious to opposition scouts meant that changing it up a level boosted the team and surprised the opposition - are you listening KR?
  • Rob7Lee said:

    They need to swap sides as well, instead of in swingers most of the time they need to vary it and have more out swingers.

    It frustrates me the times holmes can't clear the 1st man, a fine system would help that.

    Put playing "Inside out" allows Holmes to cut in and shoot, which he's far better at and more suited to than chalk on your boots winger. That is meant to be Marshall, but his crossing has largely been atrocious to this point.

    On set pieces, not having JFC definitely hurts, and Holmes' set pieces have been poor for a couple months now. Marshall has taken some but from memory they struggled to beat the first man, like his crosses. He can take them with either foot though.

    Here's a good piece about the difficulty of corner taking in the modern game, which puts some of this into perspective.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/mar/27/in-defence-of-the-corner-a-much-maligned-set-piece
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  • edited January 5
    addickson said:

    In Garry Nelson's 2nd book, when he was a coach at Torquay, he credited a fan with a goal scored from a "conventional" corner (when they'd been persevering with short corners) - spoiler: it might have been vice versa. The point being that they had spent the whole season trying to perfect a set piece and the fan suggesting that it was too obvious to opposition scouts meant that changing it up a level boosted the team and surprised the opposition - are you listening KR?

    From memory, we've scored from like six set pieces this year (Bauer x2, Holmes v. Wimbledon, Aribo, Magennis x2). We have a lot of weaknesses I don't know that this is up there near the top of the list. I think sometimes people just look for new ways to criticize Robinson.
  • Kingsferry drivers stand up when going around corners, quite a skill I can tell you.
  • JJ used to take a mean corner.
  • The Elfsborg sized team doesn't help us either as Robinson pointed out at Bromley Addicks.
  • JJ used to take a mean corner.

    He did and I'm sure atill does. The trouble is when he's on the pitch he's far more valuable in the box than taking the corner.hee one of the few players we have with actual heading ability and the only one in my mind (bar Bauer) who actually attacks the ball. His commitment to get his head on the ball no matter what, makes a big difference.
  • Dead ball kicking is my biggest bug bear in football.Look at any game,premier league downwards,and see how many crap deliveries are made by people who spend their life kicking a football.How many times do corners and free kicks not get past the first defender,how many times does the keeper have an easy claim.I maintain,the old way was best,aim for penalty spot,forwards,position themselves around edge of penalty area and get a run at the ball.For those of us old enough to remember,the wonderful Matt Tees was a master at this.I think if we could get Josh to start a run from the edge of the area,attacking outswinging corners,this could be effective.
  • Have to admit what Im hating from Charlton at the moment is the way the Free-Kick is taken.

    We ALWAYS seem to curve the ball so it goes towards the 'keeper meaning he's save enough to come and catch - At least twice this season against Peterborough (cant remember the other) the opposition have taken a set piece that flies in and curves away from the goalie.

    It allows the attackers to run on to the ball and is always a risk for the Goalkeeper so he has to stay on his line - YET WE NEVER DO IT!!
  • Holmes' delivery in general from set pieces (other than when he's taking a shot) has poor for a long time.

    It's frustrating, as that's one area where a well drilled team can thrive, even if they're struggling to score from open play
  • We've always struggled with this but there is one other thing the bugs the shit out of me. Throw-ins

    Not only are we always static but last week there were several throwins taken that were to a player but the throw was so crap it was bouncing 4 or 5 feet before the player thus it's waist high by the time it gets to the player. If it's thrown to their foot they take a touch and are ready to attack - we spend 2 or 3 seconds getting it under control and the momentum is lost. Look out for it this weekend - I bet it happens.

    Basics. Real basics. Just like our first touch - it's a basic skill but is often found wanting (big Josh suffers from Toblerone feet)
  • For me, the advantage from a corner is that your players ought to know where the ball is going and your opponents don't. I read an interesting book on football statistics which suggested that a corner was far less of a big deal than fans make of it and that there is a risk of losing a goal to a counter attack. That is why managers like Mourinho are not that bothered about corners.

    When you have a particular strength or your opponent has a particular weakness in that area it can change of course. The issue then is, if your opponent has a 6ft 9 keeper for instance, why give him meat and drink balls to catch?
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  • More irritating for me is that the balls made it out for a corner in the first place... Get it in the bloody net.
  • For me, the advantage from a corner is that your players ought to know where the ball is going and your opponents don't. I read an interesting book on football statistics which suggested that a corner was far less of a big deal than fans make of it and that there is a risk of losing a goal to a counter attack. That is why managers like Mourinho are not that bothered about corners.

    When you have a particular strength or your opponent has a particular weakness in that area it can change of course. The issue then is, if your opponent has a 6ft 9 keeper for instance, why give him meat and drink balls to catch?

    I've read that book as well. It seems to be an especially British thing to get excited by corners, I guess the complete opposite was the Pep Barcelona team who would just use the corner to start (yet) another passing move!
  • Dillon Phillips takes a great corner. Watched him in the warm up last Saturday.
  • Redhenry said:

    Dillon Phillips takes a great corner. Watched him in the warm up last Saturday.

    Can he play RB?
  • Admittedly I have only been a few times this season, but Ricky's corners have been very good from what I have seen. Especially the second half on Saturday. Feels like he's taken for granted somewhat!
  • There should be more goals being scored from a corner as you have the chance of getting the ball into the box with 8 or 9 of your players in there. I know that the opposition also have their players there too, but if you practice set pieces in training & then mix them up during the game (some short, some near post, some far, some out towards the penalty spot etc) then you stand a decent chance of getting an effort on goal........which at the moment we are failing at miserably.

    However, my biggest bugbear are throw-ins. Not, as the earlier pot alluded to, how we take them as such, but the fact that most of ours are thrown infield or back towards our goal & not forwards. This is criminal when you are at least level with the penalty area, as the ball should be thrown towards the byline. Throw-ins are about the only time when you can not be offside, so why not use that to your advantage. Get a player down by the byline, even if you then don't throw it to him. The opposition will have to track him & therefore you drag the defence deeper & nearer to their goal. It seems elementary to me & I can't see why we don't do it.
  • Noticed second half of the Gills game we put Josh in front of the keeper so he could not come and claim the ball. Corners were much more dangerous after that, before that he was claiming everything.
  • So, seriously, some of you think Robinson, Bowyer, Jacko et al get the players on the training pitch, and COACH them all to fail to clear the first defender?

    Or maybe the obvious answer is the simplest one. Player incompetence. And the coaching staff are probably just as frustrated by it as the fans...
  • For me, the advantage from a corner is that your players ought to know where the ball is going and your opponents don't. I read an interesting book on football statistics which suggested that a corner was far less of a big deal than fans make of it and that there is a risk of losing a goal to a counter attack. That is why managers like Mourinho are not that bothered about corners.

    When you have a particular strength or your opponent has a particular weakness in that area it can change of course. The issue then is, if your opponent has a 6ft 9 keeper for instance, why give him meat and drink balls to catch?

    That's quite an interesting tidbit there, Muttley. It reminds me of the book "Freakonomics", which begins with a really interesting study in to the statistics behind penalties. Essentially your best bet is to smash the ball straight down the center, as statistically it's unlikely for the keeper to remain rooted to the same spot. The only reason this doesn't happen often is because - psychologically - it takes a huge amount of confidence, and has the risk of making the player appear stupid.

    Personally I always find the excitement over corners a bit odd - don't get me wrong, I certainly get caught up in it myself - but it seems to be pot luck based on whether you can find the right coloured shirt in an overcrowded penalty box, and then further pot luck based upon whether the targetman has a clear sight of goal... in an overcrowded penalty box. (Although Jacko seemed to have a penchant for being in the right place to use his head.)

    Nah, give me open play with the ability to create room and make space any day.
  • I'm sure Robinson recently said corners were part of Jacko's coaching.

    Obviously not clearing the first man is the corner takers and not Jackson's fault. But not leaving a man up field when defending a corner would be. That irritates me no end.
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